DUST Search - [Idea] %HP based Armor Repair Modules

Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:

lithkul devant wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed.

Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light. The max for a heavy suit though I would believe, could be at maybe 3% more like 2.5%, because at 800 hps is 24 hp/s which is nearly to powerful (800*.03=24), you might say right now that no way a heavy could ever get to this point, but we have yet to see what a Gallente heavy would be, which I think could easily be 800-900hps on just armor alone. Which is why I think percentage based healing could be very important to armor suits in the future. However, it needs to be kept in check and not let the percentages get to high at all. Also, do not quote the numbers I just used, they are just examples make up your own determinations if this is a good or bad idea.

Everyone sees big repair numbers, but at the heart of it it's not that OP. When a heavy can be dropped in under 2-3 seconds, you're only talking a total of between 75-100 HP repaired, which is 2-3 bullets worth of damage. In sustained fire situations, the only thing this would accomplish is perhaps giving the heavy a chance to react before they're mercilessly gunned down. Right now, heavies don't even have time to react before they get destroyed by AR's.

I imagine CCP won't ever nerf weapon Time to Kill, so something needs to be done about survivablity and time to combat-ready.


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lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 57	Posted - 2013.09.10 17:04:00 - [1] - Quote This actually seems like a really good idea, considering how slow armor regen currently is without a logi constantly backing you up. Especially for a heavy suit, where you might be regaining armor for more then a solid minute and with how large the hit boxes are for the heavy and how fast you can loose your armor, which is ridiculously fast. Even with the "buff" to armor recently it is more of just making it closer to on par with shields not actually equal to them at all. Caldari shields still rule the battlefield as they can regain most of thier shield hps in under 10 seconds from zero to full. Shields are supposed to be the much faster option, but they aren't supposed to be the flat out better option. That and armor repairs in Eve are no where as slow as they are in Dust, if a armor tanker in Eve was as slow as it is in Dust they'd be dead within seconds while everyone laughs at them. Armor in Dust also does not have really that much resistance to it or prowness for how slow it is to build back up. IF armor had actual good resistance values and wasn't just cheese to be peeled off the current system would be fine, however, we live with armor that is chesse.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 58	Posted - 2013.09.10 19:06:00 - [2] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: im still running the default free mlt galente suit with shield armor upgrades maxed.. got around 150 shields 353 armor... which is pretty decent for a mlt suit. armor repair modules r always actively repairing armor at a slow rate in a fire fight or not in one.. of course when armor gets low u have to get out of the battle. but that isnt always needed.. 4 hp armor a second is really quite good for armor. sure its going to take a few minutes to get back to full hp but just 1 armor repper isnt supposed to bring u back to full hp really fast.. this would make high armored suits to strong... passive armor repair should be slow.. the repair mods are always repairing the suit and 1 min isnt that long... shields rnt better than armo.. the second shield gets low u have to run... and go hide.. shields also seem to be weaker the only strength they have is that explosives resistance that they have.. but since armor reppers r always reping and r not effected by gunfire and other stuff such as shields are which makes the repair modules very effective... but if u need all that armor just to survive any fire fight in the first place u r either an idiot that has no clue on how to play. likes to RUN INTO GUNFIRE and act invincible... cant aim and so needs to rely on lots of armor to get a kill.. or thinks this would fix the already underpowered heavy suit which this isnt going to fix.. Actually armor isn't repairing all the time, thier are whole forums about this topic as well, just an fyi
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 58	Posted - 2013.09.11 01:55:00 - [3] - Quote Django Quik wrote: lithkul devant wrote: [quote=CLONE117]im still running the default free mlt galente suit with shield armor upgrades maxed.. got around 150 shields 353 armor... which is pretty decent for a mlt suit. armor repair modules r always actively repairing armor at a slow rate in a fire fight or not Actually armor isn't repairing all the time, thier are whole forums about this topic as well, just an fyi Really? Please link one of these threads. My experience gap been that armor reppers are always on except for a very rare bug or two. This was the forum I was originally refering to https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87752 it is a very complete listing about armor and such it has been edited through different patches I think, but the issue about armor regen not going all the time might have been removed from it I am posting this anyways because it is a really good read and also details about shields. I currently can not find the forum that has the information about the armor repair delay, since I think it was more of a 1.3 issue, it was a 1-3 second delay, if I find it in the future I will post it.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 19:39:00 - [4] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: The-Errorist wrote: This is not needed. This would nerf lights frames, nerf Minmatar, and make heavies repair more armor than shields per second, as well as not need as much repair support. 1) I've said it already - Light frames need more help than the scope of this. Besides, light frames don't really armor tank, now do they? No, they don't armor tank; they armor rep tank. With their few advantages being speed and stealth, it's all about darting in and out of cover and using their innate high shield reps and a complex armor repper to get to full health again quickly. Whilst other suits can properly armor tank and take lots of damage while fending off attackers, even with extra plates, you're not tanking anything in a light suit. With a current complex repper you get 100 armour in 16 seconds. That's not bad, especially considering (bugs aside) there's no delay on armour repping like there is (supposed to be - still not sure if this bug got fixed in 1.4) with shields. With some suits you can stack several of these and be constantly repping 25 armor per second even under fire! Having reps percentage based makes them massively beneficial for high armor suits and meaningless for anyone else. You should not be able to tank high armour and high reps - it should be a trade off of one or the other, just like it is with shields. Alright, so what I guess I am hearing is that armor reppers are kind of useless for those of lower armor values, because 10% of 100 is a lot less then 10% of 400, I know these are not actual suit armor hps, just making the example simple. So I was wondering if a progressive system would work better, where light suits get the highest % of repairs and heavies get the lowest % in repairs to try and even them out. So that a heavy is not getting many X times more hp then a light suit is, but it is still getting more by about 2X, like an inverse of the shields, where light suits get around 40 per tick and heavies get around 20 per tick. This would allow for better and more focussed armor tanking, now a lot of people have raised up the point, oh you could just sit on a hive and have someone armor repair you, this is a bs arguement, if anyone was stuipid enough to sit on a hive and actually stay in that solitary location, someone will throw a locus gernade into their face, hit them with a mass driver a few times or just 1 shot them with a forge gun or plasma cannon. A gernade can actually 1 hit kill an armor tanked heavy if the heavies shields have been damaged because I think the value added onto gernade damage against armor is 50% not many tanks are going to be able to survive a 700 point blast from a gernade, a logi isn't going to stick around and die for the heavy, the nano hive will also be destroyed by the gernade or mass driver. Also, to say that we are armor tanking with heavies or shield tanking...is a bit of a bullshit line since it is amarr which is made to be equal part armor and shields to begin with, we do not currently have Gallente heavies or Caldari heavies, we may think we are armor or shield tanking with the heavies but really we are not. The best shield tankers aslo seem to be the logi's in a strange way, because they have high shields and regenerate them very quickly, least in my opinnion. I think the problem for armor is the fact of how easy armor is to destroy with having bad resistances against common forms of damage and how slow it is now, mainly because new players are helped immensly with aim assist. Armor should be a steady gain and should have resistances in order to "keep it in the fight" which was the whole premise behind armor tanking, 5hp/s or even 8hp/s just isn't enough it should be roughly around 15 for the top end for the heavy suits, I also think I saw a great idea in here about burst repairs from one of the armor types that would then go onto a cooldown mode. This seems to be a great idea in itself, though that kind of power should be a cd of around 15-20 seconds I think unsure. I think though, that the idea of a progressive armor return based upon suit type/mod type would be giving the light suits a fair match with the heavies and how much they can gain, though the heavies would still gain a few more points per tick, since the lights get more points per tick with the shields.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:52:00 - [5] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: Don't tell me you're talking about the logi suit bonus being a percentage too, even without that a couple of complex armor reppers could make me pretty much invincible, 10% per second? and I can bring that up to like 600 armor on my logi easily so about 60 armor/sec, thats more than shields...lol. Maybe have a variant for percentage but those levels would be waaaay too powerful, maybe like 3% max, otherwise I could probably walk up to a heavy as he's trying to gun me down. Learn to read noob, I was not ever saying it should be 10% I was saying 10% as an example of the difference between a 400 and a 100 hps....Sorry but you deserve the scorn for not even bothering to read.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:55:00 - [6] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed. Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 62	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:29:00 - [7] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Django Quik wrote: Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed. Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light. The max for a heavy suit though I would believe, could be at maybe 3% more like 2.5%, because at 800 hps is 24 hp/s which is nearly to powerful (800*.03=24), you might say right now that no way a heavy could ever get to this point, but we have yet to see what a Gallente heavy would be, which I think could easily be 800-900hps on just armor alone. Which is why I think percentage based healing could be very important to armor suits in the future. However, it needs to be kept in check and not let the percentages get to high at all. Also, do not quote the numbers I just used, they are just examples make up your own determinations if this is a good or bad idea. Everyone sees big repair numbers, but at the heart of it it's not that OP. When a heavy can be dropped in under 2-3 seconds, you're only talking a total of between 75-100 HP repaired, which is 2-3 bullets worth of damage. In sustained fire situations, the only thing this would accomplish is perhaps giving the heavy a chance to react before they're mercilessly gunned down. Right now, heavies don't even have time to react before they get destroyed by AR's. I imagine CCP won't ever nerf weapon Time to Kill, so something needs to be done about survivablity and time to combat-ready. It's really not OP at all considering I was doing math of what a Gallente heavy would be like, which means the shields for the heavy would probably be at 200 and the repair rate on the shields would be worse then what is on the current Amarr heavy. People would be directly shooting into the armor of this heavy most of the time, the armor repairer would only be absorbing like you said 2-3 extra bullets during the engagement, the heavy would still have to repair a lot of damage at a slower repair rate then most shields, I also mentioned during it that 3% would be high and the more likely value would be around 2.5% which would have it be doing around 20 per tick, this would be considered probably the proto version of the percentile repairers for the heavies. Compare that to the current logi's who can get 40 shield a second I think (not entirely sure), 1-5 armor a second just for skilling up the logi chain and can have over 400-500 shields and 400 armor as well, this by itself already beats my example of the potential Gallente heavy in Ehp and effectiveness of recharge as the logis already currently beat the Amarr heavies often enough in Ehp as well or least come very close to the same totals yet the logis are way better if they are just combat focussed and are not trying to heal others.